Part of the problem I have with the PUA's activities was primarily that those guys were servicing women on regular occassions for one simple reason, at the same time MRA's were warning all men about the possibility of being screwed (the other) with false accusations under the current laws in place which will and can destroy one's life in an instant with very little or no repercussion on the accuser, even being charged or held accountable. The whole issue was so skewed that it would be better not to go near any female rather than face a possible prison term for something you may be entirely innocent of .
The outcome to my way of thinking should have been a reduction of male to female relationships/nights out/even had a ban night with the intent of ensuring that those misandric laws were named and promoted as being the main reason it was happening. A bit like the marriage strike which some deny and some agree is happening, but it has yet to surface that men are soundly rejecting marriage because of the anti-male laws in place, which the MSM does not bother to include in their interpretation or opinion pieces..
Misinformation still remains if it protects the privileged princesses. If it does not, only then will it get exposed. The hypocrisy is real..
Tdom has this rather interesting article on the PUA methodology and exposes the psuedo-science mentality it incorporates without justification..
Game Over
Welcome to the Debating Game
Written by TDOM
Over at AVfM, Paul Elam is hosting a debate on game and the MRM between himself and someone named Frost. Paul is critical of the use of game and game theory while Frost is defending it as a sort of science of how to get laid (he called it a “study”).Paul’s position is that game has no bearing on the men’s movement. While some gamers are sympathetic to men’s rights and other issues or may be opposed to feminism, game itself is meaningless and those who extol its virtues are mostly in it for the money (selling books, DVDs, etc.). It is all about getting laid and nothing more. According to Paul, game is all about throwing one’s values and self-respect out the window in order to pass a shit test. Frost claims it is a legitimate endeavor and defines it as: “Game is the study of how women respond to men’s behaviour (sic)” and claims it will increase a man’s chances for success with women.
I’m not entirely certain as to why it is important to debate this issue. Game may very well be a waste of time, money, and energy. Its proponents may be con artists. Its practitioners may be superficial scumbags with little respect for women. So what? There are plenty of snake oil salesmen(women) out there and as David Hannum once said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”[1]
One the other hand, maybe it works. Again, so what? Lots of people use lots of techniques to get what they want. Car salesmen are taught a variety of manipulative techniques to sell cars to people who may not really want one or need one. Does that make them bad people? No, it makes them salesmen. So if a man wraps himself up in a thinly veiled technique to manipulate a woman into having sex, does that make him any worse than the woman who dons wig or colors her hair and applies expensive cosmetics to attract a man? I suppose that may depend on who is asked, but both are presenting themselves as something they aren’t in order to get something they want.
While Paul has only hinted at it, the best I can figure is that he is attempting to save gamers from themselves. He hasn’t succinctly stated it, but I can see the following problems with game. Once women realize they’ve been gamed, they may feel used and cheated. That opens the door for false allegations that could devastate their lives. Further, gamers appear to suffer from a lack of self-confidence, especially with women. This lack of confidence leaves them open to being exploited by unscrupulous con artists willing to take their money for the promise of increased access to sex. Thirdly, PUAs and gamers are typically viewed as sexual predators. They aren’t necessarily rapists or even doing anything wrong, but the practice of an art of luring women into bed may be seen by others as sleazy behavior.
Basically, its bad PR for men in general and in that respect it may be contraindicated as part of the MRM. Finally, it only confirms the feminist viewpoint that men are only after one thing. PUAs, they would say, demean and degrade women by treating them as sex objects whose sole purpose is to satisfy their desires.
From the gamer perspective, I suppose that Frost and others would believe that whatever they are paying for the services of their teachers, it is money well spent if it improves success rates. If they get laid often enough, it will increase their self-esteem and therefore game might be considered a form of therapy. The women they find are typically in singles bars, making themselves available. They want it, so what’s the problem. That PUAs might be seen as sleazy misogynists never enters their mind. These women want to get laid as badly as the PUAs do. No misogyny involved. In many respects, they have a point.
The flaw isn’t that the techniques may appear bizarre, but that they aren’t backed up by any sort of valid evidence.
There are lots of reasons women go to bars and consume alcohol, but meeting men is probably at the top of the list. Just as advocates of game can make considerable amounts of money selling game to vulnerable men, there are tons of writers and publications dedicated to taking money from vulnerable women by purporting to teach them how to trap a man. Where better to practice either art than a place where single men go to find single women, especially one that provides legal drugs that decrease inhibitions and provide a false sense of confidence. As such, there’s no real reason for a PUA to feel a sense of shame or guilt any more than there is for a woman to feel the same about her use of deception to trap a man. The reality is that both are there for the same thing.But before we can decide which view is correct, we must define game. What is it? Frost stated that “Game is the study of how women respond to men’s behaviour (sic).” But this same statement could be used to define feminism; which is the ideology that describes women’s response to male oppression (or so they claim). Are they the same thing? Not hardly. So Frost’s definition is insufficient. However, he makes another statement a bit later that may enhance the definition, “The bottom line is that Game is a tool men can use to increase their success with women. No more, no less.” In other words, game could be defined as the study of how women respond to men’s behavior, and how men can use that knowledge to gain access to sex with women. I use the word sex instead of success because he also states “If a man chooses to eschew sex for life, I admit he will have no use for Game.” Thus, Frost equates success with sex and sex is far more specific.Frost takes exception to the belief that:
[game] must include shiny clothes, effeminate mannerisms, hoop-jumping, and whatever other behaviours (sic) that they would like to associate with we ‘Gamers’.I don’t blame him. While these things are hyped by some gamers, there is more to game than that. To think otherwise is to believe in a caricature. What constitutes real game is found in the next statement:
We’re just a community of men, sharing what we know about women and relationships.which is a very telling statement.
Frost stated that game is a “study.” This implies some sort of methodological approach. But what kind of methodology? A bunch of men sharing what they know is definitely not science. It is personal experience; anecdotal evidence. Any scientist will tell you that anecdotal evidence is simply not evidence. It might have some value in helping to formulate a hypothesis, but it is insufficient to test that hypothesis.
For example, if I were to go out and buy a new pair of shoes prior to jumping off a ledge, I might conclude that I survived because the shoes absorbed the impact and that they were the reason I lived. I might then go out and tell everyone I know about my experience and that wearing these shoes will increase their chances of survival if they intend to jump off a ledge. But I might not have considered that the ledge I jumped from was three feet off the ground and not from a five story building.
Likewise, a gamer may tell all his buddies about how he negged some chick at the local bar who later went home with him. But he may neglect to consider that she had a thing for tall, skinny guys with blond hair and blue eyes and that he just happened to fit that description while all the other guys in the bar that she rejected did not. It may have been the blond hair and blue eyes that attracted the woman, not the neg, just as it was likely the height of the ledge that allowed me to survive, not the new shoes. A more scientific approach might be more beneficial in determining what works and what doesn’t.
Frost stated that one objection to game may be that the “specific teachings are flawed.” Frost may have been correct, but he was correct for the wrong reasons. The flaw isn’t that the techniques may appear bizarre, but that they aren’t backed up by any sort of valid evidence. An objection to a comment I made on the debate was that “What works for someone won’t work for you…” game must be custom-fit to the person using it. While this may be sound advice, what does it say about game? Game is supposed to increase success with women, but if the techniques are prone to failure, does it actually increase success?
Rest of the article here..
